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Krinkala
Member
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Posted: 18 March 2006 07:32 pm |
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| I need approximately 1200 mg of Calcium daily according to the recommendations for my age and sex. Excluding dairy sources and meat, what could I eat in a day to get this amount of calcium without going over my calorie range of 1500 to 1700 calories a day (depending on exercise level)?
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Peter
Founder, caloriesperhour.com
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Posted: 18 March 2006 11:45 pm |
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The book Eat To Live suggests green veggies, beans, tofu, sesame seeds, even oranges. Interestingly bok choy, turnip greens, collard greens, kale, romaine lettuce and tofu have more calcium per 100 calories than milk!
Of course you have to eat a lot romaine to get 100 calories compared to 100 calories worth of milk, but then the veggies are good for you.
You can check out other sources here:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
It takes some playing with to get used to using, but once you do it's a great souce.
Peter
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King Money Dimecent $$$
New Member
| Joined: | 18 March 2006 |
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| Posts: | 17 |
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Posted: 19 March 2006 04:30 pm |
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Peter wrote: The book Eat To Live suggests green veggies, beans, tofu, sesame seeds, even oranges. Interestingly bok choy, turnip greens, collard greens, kale, romaine lettuce and tofu have more calcium per 100 calories than milk!
Of course you have to eat a lot romaine to get 100 calories compared to 100 calories worth of milk, but then the veggies are good for you.
You can check out other sources here:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
It takes some playing with to get used to using, but once you do it's a great souce.
Peter
Dear old Peter, you musn't forget that half a cup of Oatmeal has 25% of the daily recommended allowance of Calcium for a normal person....
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Peter
Founder, caloriesperhour.com
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Posted: 19 March 2006 08:13 pm |
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My Quaker Oatmeal box shows 0% for the day, and the database shows 21mg per half cup serving.
I'm wondering if you're looking at oatmeal with milk? I use water, raisins and ground flaxseed to make mine every morning.
BTW, I'm old, but not normal by any standards. ;)
Peter
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King Money Dimecent $$$
New Member
| Joined: | 18 March 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 17 |
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Posted: 19 March 2006 09:40 pm |
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Peter wrote: My Quaker Oatmeal box shows 0% for the day, and the database shows 21mg per half cup serving.
I'm wondering if you're looking at oatmeal with milk? I use water, raisins and ground flaxseed to make mine every morning.
BTW, I'm old, but not normal by any standards. ;)
Peter
Nope, no milk old chap..... then if it does actually say 0%, then I would suggest low fat milk, its healthy, low fat, unprocessed and why restrict yourself of milk that has no more than 1 gram of fat per two cup serving?
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King Money Dimecent $$$
New Member
| Joined: | 18 March 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 17 |
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Posted: 19 March 2006 10:03 pm |
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Peter wrote: My Quaker Oatmeal box shows 0% for the day, and the database shows 21mg per half cup serving.
I'm wondering if you're looking at oatmeal with milk? I use water, raisins and ground flaxseed to make mine every morning.
BTW, I'm old, but not normal by any standards. ;)
Peter
Oh Peter, read WMs post on the link below:
http://www.caloriesperhour.com/forums/forum4/975.html
Last edited on 19 March 2006 10:04 pm by King Money Dimecent $$$
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wm
Senior Member
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Posted: 20 March 2006 12:27 am |
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I'm not sure why The Survivor's Handbook considers oatmeal to be high in calcium (I have edited the post cited above to reflect the source). My own bag of bulk "organic old fashioned thick rolled oats" from the natural food store shows 2% DV of calcium per 45g serving.
I value oatmeal more for its relatively high content of fiber and protein.
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Krinkala
Member
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Posted: 20 March 2006 02:31 am |
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I have a difficult time getting the recommended amounts of calcium even when including yogurt and cheese in my diet. I try to eat a balanced and varied diet within my calorie range. I was given a link on one of the posts that claimed that dairy was not good for calcium absorption, and I am willing to give that consideration and try alternatives.
The only cereals that seem to have much calcium have been fortified. Sadly, oats and oatmeal do not seem to have significant calcium.
I am eating all of those items recommended except tofu, but I am willing to give that another try if I could find a tasty way to cook it, or recipes that my family would like or even tolerate.
I am not vegetarian but am very concerned about the the disease and pollutants in our animal sources. I am just about to the point of giving up beef altogether because of the possibility of mad cow disease in U.S. herds. I eat organic yogurt regularly, consume a small amount of organic milk in cereal and cooking, but have not gone organic with cheese because it is more difficult to find and it is a good calcium source. But if it becomes clear that even organic dairy is dangerous to eat, that will come to an end.
Can anyone tell me, as a vegetarian, what is a typical day's diet and do you really get up to the recommended calcium levels without supplements?
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wm
Senior Member
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Posted: 20 March 2006 03:24 am |
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More on calcium from The Survivor's Handbook (http: //www.cancerproject.org/resources/handbook.php):
"...milk appears to interfere with the activation of vitamin D in the body. Vitamin D is actually a hormone that helps your body absorb calcium from the digestive tract." p 24
"And this is where dairy products become a problem. As the load of calcium in dairy products floods into the bloodstream, it apparently signals the body that, since there is plenty of calcium in the system already, the body does not need to activate vitamin D to try to absorb any more. That is, the body reduces its vitamin D activation so that it does not absorb too much calcium, since calcium overdoses can be toxic." p 24
"Green leafy vegetables and legumes (beans, peas, and lentils) contain calcium, and, unlike milk, are rich in fiber and other nutrients that protect against cancer. You’ll also find plenty of calcium in supplements and, as we’ve seen, in fortified soymilk. Calcium-fortified juices are now widely available. However, it is important to remember that increased calcium intake may be one of the reasons why milk is linked to prostate cancer (because high calcium intakes interfere with vitamin D activation). If that is true, you should be equally cautious about any product that is extremely high in calcium (i.e., fortified foods or supplements). In that light, green leafy vegetables and beans are your best calcium sources. They have adequate calcium, but not excessive amounts." p 26
"However, don’t depend on calcium—from any source—to protect you from osteoporosis. While the dairy industry has pushed drinking milk as a means of preventing the bone-thinning condition, studies show that the strategy is largely useless....Perhaps most important of all, you should understand that osteoporosis is not a condition of inadequate calcium intake, for the most part. Rather, it is a condition of overly rapid calcium loss." p 26
How Much Calcium Is Absorbed from Foods?
For comparison, 32% of the calcium from dairy products is absorbed.
Beans, white 17.0%
Broccoli 52.6%
Brussels sprouts 63.8%
Kale 58.8%
Kohlrabi 67.0%
Mustard greens 57.8%
Orange juice, calcium fortified 37.0%
Soymilk 31.0%
Tofu, calcium set 31.0%
Turnip greens 51.6%
In Eat to Live (http: //drfuhrman.com/) Dr. Joel Fuhrman confirms all of the above and adds this about the relationship between osteoporosis and dairy products:
"Hip fractures and osteoporosis are more frequent in populations in which dairy products are commonly consumed and calcium intakes are commonly high. For example, American women drink thirty to thirty-two times as much cow's milk as the New Guineans, yet suffer forty-seven times as many broken hips." p 84
It's not that dairy products cause osteoporosis--it's that they "...are not protecting us from osteoporosis as we have been indoctrinated to believe since childhood." p 85
"Published data clearly links increased urinary excretion of calcium with animal-protein intake but not with vegetable-protein intake. Plant foods, though some may be high in protein, are not acid-forming. Animal-protein ingestion results in a heavy acid load in the blood. This sets off a series of reactions whereby calcium is released from the bones to help neutralize the acid. The sulfur-based amino acids in animal products contribute significantly to urinary acid production and the resulting calcium loss." p 86
Dr. Fuhrman identifies on p 86 the following as dietary factors that induce calcium loss in the urine:
animal protein
salt
caffeine
refined sugar
alcohol
nicotine
aluminum-containing antacids
drugs such as antibiotics, steroids, thyroid hormone
vitamin A supplements
"Green vegetables, beans, tofu, sesame seeds, and even oranges contain lots of usable calcium, without the problems associated with dairy. Keep in mind that you retain the calcium better and just do not need as much when you don't consume a diet heavy in animal products and sodium, sugar, and caffeine." p 88
Aren't you sorry you asked? :D
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Krinkala
Member
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Posted: 20 March 2006 04:53 am |
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Okay, I'd really like to know what vegetarians actually eat in a typical day and where they get their calcium. So I'll show you what I mean. If I modify what I eat in a day to make it without meat and dairy, this is what it might look like and I'll include the calcium levels:
Breakfast
Sunflower seeds - 1 T; 51 calories; 10.44 mg calcium
Pumpkin seeds - 1 T; 46 calories; 3.7 mg calcium
pistachio - 1 T; 42.8 cal; 8.23 mg calcium
peanuts, Spanish - .25 oz; 40.4 cal; 7.5 mg calcium
almonds - .125 oz - 20.5 cal; 8.8 mg calcium
cashews - .125 oz - 19.6 cal; 1.3 mg calcium
hazelnuts - 3 ea - 26.4 cal; 4.8 mg calcium
pecans - .25 oz - 49 cal; 4.96 mg calcium
muffin, blueberry - 1/2; 156.5 cal; 32.2 mg calcium
Lunch
Bread, sprouted barley - 2 slices; 140 cal; 4 mg calcium
Avocado - 1/2; 144.5 cal; 11.25 mg calcium
Tofu - 2 oz; 43 cal; 198.45 mg calcium
Romaine lettuce-1 inner leaf; 1 cal; 1.98 mg calcium
Dinner
Garbanzo beans- 1 cup; 269 cal; 80.36 mg calcium
Brown rice - 3/4 cup; 162.3 cal; 14.6 mg calcium
Spinach - 2 cups; 13.8 cal; 16.86 mg calcium
Snacks
Apple - 1 small; 55.1 cal; 6.36 mg calcium
Carrot - 1 small; 20.5 cal; 16.5 mg calcium
Tomatoes - 6 cherry; 21.4 cal; 5.1 mg calcium
Celery - 1 oz; 4 cal; 11.34 mg calcium
Banana - 1/2; 52.5 cal; 2.95 mg calcium
Raspberries - 1/4 cup; 16 calories; 7.68 mg calcium
Blueberries - 1/4 cup; 20.7 cal; 2.175 mg calcium
Walnuts - .125 oz; 23.2 calories; 3.473 mg calcium
Totals: 1523 Calories - 519.6 mg Calcium
Carbs 56%; Protein 12%; Fat 32%
I do typically eat all those nuts and seeds and the fruits and veges, but my dinner is usually 6 oz of chicken or fish instead of beans and I usually have only 1/2 cup of rice or other starch. I typically have salmon or chicken on my sandwich for lunch, but sometimes I have avocado and cheese. And I usually have 1/2 cup of yogurt once a day (with berries) and 1/2 oz of cheese sometime in the day. But if I were to give up the meat and cheese and yogurt, how would I get the calcium? As you can see, the above scenario give me less than half of the calcium I need. What do I need to change to get up to that level of calcium?
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Krinkala
Member
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Posted: 20 March 2006 05:53 am |
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Oops - the spinach should be 59 gm calcium (for 2 cups raw spinach before cooking), but the grand total is the same.
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Nir
Senior Administrator
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Posted: 20 March 2006 04:37 pm |
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First, as you transition from animal protein to vegeterian protein, you will need less calcium (as quoted from the books, above), especially with regards to osteoporosis.
However, what you really want (sorry, too busy to do this at the moment) is some number-crunching: to calculate, for each food with a rich-in-calcium claim, the calcium content in 100 _calories_ (as opposed to 100g). Then you sort those foods by the number you get (highest first) - and make a concious choice to consume more of the calcium-per-calorie dense food than you otherwise would. If you can't reach your calcium target whilst sticking to your calorie allowance when using the "best" calcium source, you're not going to reach it with anything else...
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Krinkala
Member
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Posted: 21 March 2006 08:27 am |
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Am I being told that it isn't possible to get enough calcium eating a vegetarian diet? Or am I being told that the government RDA is wrong?
I cannot figure out a non-dairy diet that comes anywhere close to the recommended intake for calcium that seems reasonable. Turnip greens is a very good source, for example. For 100 calories you get around 600 mg calcium. But that is 5.75 cups of turnip greens! Does this seem practical on a daily basis? Tell me, do vegetarians really eat this quantity of greens? Do you just get used to it? But the greens also have some absorption problems. I'm willing to try something different if it stands a chance of working. I'd still like to know what the diet of a typical vegetarian actually is?
I do appreciate everyone listing the various foods with calcium and I will add a few in that I have not been regularly using.
I have not concluded, in spite of what some authors have published, that all dairy is problematic in terms of calcium absorption, though I accept that premise regarding milk. I'm still trying to verify that is really so with non-fat yogurt and hard cheese (which has the most calcium). Scientific evidence seems to change from year to year. And I have trouble believing the scientific facts of those that seem to have another agenda. So I'll be keeping my eyes open for outside confirmation over the coming months. My personal concern about dairy is the added hormones, antibiotics and now mad cow looms.
I just want to have the best available nutrition through food. I've challenged myself to get all the nutrients I need through diet and not with supplements. I'm not going to go without supplements forever, but I just want to see if it is even possible to get the RDAs through food. And if not, are the RDAs just bogus?
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Nir
Senior Administrator
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Posted: 21 March 2006 04:22 pm |
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Looking at vitamins and minerals (and not just calcium) it is difficult to get them from food as the quality of foods we eat erodes over time. That's how I justify my daily multivitamin despite doing my best to eat plenty of produce.
I'm not a vegetarian (yet) but I do not see a problem with eating 1 - 1.5 kilos (2-3 pounds) of produce per day. In fact, there are no other foods I can eat so much of (I enjoy eating). At the moment I'm doing something similiar to you, but I'm not focusing on calcium - I'm looking at protein instead (same reason though - I'd like to limit my reliance on animal protein). I find that some vegetables (e.g. Spinach, Mushrooms, Broccoli etc.) have more protein per 100 calories compared with, say, beans.
Yes, I was saying that the government RDA for calcium is higher than it needs to be (assuming that you are willing to switch away from acid-forming animal proteins). See wm's post where he quotes Dr Fhurman's list of calcium-losing foods.
Regarding hard cheeses: as it is high in calories, how many mg of calcium do you get for a 100 calorie serving? How does the figure compare with tofu, beans or those vegetables that are a bit more calorie-dense are not going to cause you "logistical problems" to obtain/cook/eat.
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Krinkala
Member
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Posted: 22 March 2006 09:24 am |
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Well, that was a good challenge. Here are the results:
For 100 calories of:
Tofu, raw, firm, prepared with calcium sulfate - 2.44 oz = 472.46 mg calcium & 10.91 g protein
Yogurt, non-fat - .84 cup = 378 mg calcium & 10.1 g protein
Cheddar Cheese - .88 oz = 178.85 mg calcium & 6.71 g protein
Green Beans - 2.29 cup = 131 mg calcium & 5.41 g
Broccoli - 1.83 cup = 114.25 mg & 6.79 g protein
protein
Orange, Valencia - 1.7 fruit = 82.28 mg calcium & 2.14 g protein
Mushrooms, crimini - 16 oz! = 81.6 mg calcium & 11.34 g protein
Tofu, silken, extra firm - 6.42 oz = 56.42 mg calcium & 13.47 g protein
Almonds - .6 oz = 42.89 mg calcium & 3.61 g protein
Garbanzo beans - .372 cup = 29.89 mg calcium & 5.4 g protein
Beans, black - .441 cup = 20.48 mg calcium & 6.72 g protein
I've been using a new food diary software (new to me) called Diet Organizer (I found it online) which breaks down food by nutrient value when you enter it into the diary. I had been looking for something like this and was prepared to create it if I couldn't find it. It doesn't have a way to search for food by nutrient, but if you enter a food into the diary it shows the breakdown of nutrients as well as the ratios of protein, carbs & fats, and calories of course.
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Nir
Senior Administrator
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Posted: 22 March 2006 06:20 pm |
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Krinkala wrote: Tofu, raw, firm, prepared with calcium sulfate - 2.44 oz = 472.46 mg calcium & 10.91 g protein
So 6 oz of that gives you 1161mg of calcium (and 26.83g protein to boot) in just 246 calories. Mission accomplished?
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Krinkala
Member
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Posted: 23 March 2006 07:22 am |
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I think maybe so. It's a good bang for the calorie buck. Does preparation with calcium sulfate mean that it has been fortified? If so, it's kind of like cheating at least in terms of this experiment. Nevertheless, I will take a look around and see if I can find this in the stores and then see if I can do anything with it and see if I can like it.
Thanks for your help.
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fsahurie
Senior Member
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Posted: 1 April 2006 12:44 am |
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Krinkala wrote: I think maybe so. It's a good bang for the calorie buck. Does preparation with calcium sulfate mean that it has been fortified? If so, it's kind of like cheating at least in terms of this experiment. Nevertheless, I will take a look around and see if I can find this in the stores and then see if I can do anything with it and see if I can like it.
Thanks for your help.
Will it kill you to drink one cup of nonfat milk a day??:D
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Lori
Senior Member
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Posted: 1 April 2006 04:52 am |
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i have no fat, or low fat milk with everything .. i would have probably more than one cup a day.. i dont understand why everyone is so anti milk, or even anti cheese.. i eat both and u know, they might contain a bit of fat, but hey, they are good for you!! i dont mean eat the whole block of cheese, or drink the two litre container dry, but i seriously dont see the harm in having htem in ya diet. *shrugs*
i can tell you, theres a whole lot worse!!
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Krinkala
Member
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Posted: 1 April 2006 06:03 am |
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fsahurie, it has been put forward by some experts and some people on this site quoting the experts, that adult humans do not absorb the calcium from milk and if this is so, there is no point for me in drinking it. But there is another problem for me and others, and that is the added growth hormones and antibiotics that are given to the cow. I know this may seem like a small issue to some people, but I have had estrogen related problems and need to make sure I am not ingesting extra growth hormones. So I try to only have organic milk (on the rare occassion that I have it) and organic yogurt. It's harder to find organic cheese. So I am looking for alternatives to dairy. (don't get me started on the mad cow problem either) I would also like to be proactive in preventing osteoporosis. This is my challenge - to find a way to get enough calcium in my diet that is from a healthy source that is non-dairy, that is doable and doesn't throw me off my calorie limits.
Lori, I'm not anti fat. You cannot absorb the fat soluble vitamins without fat and therefore you cannot be healthy without fat. But it is important that the majority of the fats in your diet are from healthy fats. I count calories and eat an average of 1600 calories per day, calories burned through exercise around 400 and keep my net calories per day down to about 1200. For the month of March (so far) my breakdown of foods are: carbs 38.5% protein 23.5% and fat 38%. Even though my percentage of fat is a bit high, I am still losing weight because my net calories are the right number for losing 1/2# a week.
I have been eating about 350 calories of nuts and seeds every day as well as avocado, olives and the occassional salmon and then there's olive oil and a little sesame oil for flavor.
I do think there is a place in the diet for saturated fats - but a small place.
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wm
Senior Member
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Posted: 2 April 2006 12:02 am |
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I don't put any faith in US Recommended Daily Allowances. In Eat to Live Dr. Fuhrman says:
"The RDAs were first developed when the government began questioning the nutritional value of military rations distributed to our soldiers during World War II. Later, our government's Food and Nutrition Board looked at what foods they expected most people to eat. By analyzing the average diet, they came up with a suggested minimum and then added an upward adjustment to theoretically ensure optimal health.
The RDAs are not based on how people should eat to maintain optimal health; rather they have been formulated to represent how we do eat. They characterize the conventional diet: high in animal products; lots of dairy products and fat; and low in fiber, antioxidants, and other nutrients, such as vitamin C, that are rich in plant foods. The RDAs reflect a diet that caused all the problems in the first place." p 140
"Most of the dietary recommendations from out government have been discarded and updated over time. Such recommendations, such as the Basic Four Food Group Guide, have always been at least ten years behind current science and strongly influenced by the food manufacturers. The current RDAs should meet the same fate; they are based on outmoded nutritional opinions that do not stand up to scientific scrutiny." p 141
Instead of RDAs and the US government's flawed food pyramid, Dr. Fuhrman recommends eating a rich assortment of natural foods in the proportions indicated in his Life Plan Food Pyramid (below).
Attached Image (viewed 221 times):
 Last edited on 6 April 2006 11:12 pm by wm
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Krinkala
Member
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Posted: 2 April 2006 07:01 pm |
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That's an interesting history that Dr. Furhman relates. If the government RDAs are incorrect, there are still optimal levels for nutrients and it would be good to know what they are.
There are a lot of other people that also differ with the RDAs and most of them suggest that we should all take lots of supplements, some of these people sell the supplements. I think taking huge doses of supplements and eating lots of fortified foods puts an unnatural strain on your kidneys and liver and other of your internal organs and that you can wear them out too soon. You can kill yourself (and your family) with kindness. That's why eating the right balance of foods is important.
I am sure that eating a wide variety of types of foods ensures that we are getting a variety of nutrients. I'm still hoping to find the specific nutrient standard to aim for.
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Cowgirl
New Member
| Joined: | 4 April 2006 |
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| Posts: | 43 |
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Posted: 6 April 2006 10:59 pm |
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What is so awful about ingesting 4-5 Viactive/day? They are 10 calories each and even if only half of their Calcium is actually absorbed, that is great!
As for mad cow disease, I am a beef farmer and I can tell you that milk does not have any possiblity of carrying bovine spongiform encephalopathy. Spinal cord tissue and brain tissue is the repository for the prions responsible for BSE.
I don't eat any meat but our own home-grown so I can understand your organic propensities. I don't eat pork or chicken because they are mostly raised in factory farms and I cannot support that style of agriculture (plus they taste like cardboard).
I love milk and drink lots of skim. As for the estrogen, dairy cows are not routinely injected with implants (hormones). And yes, you can certainly find organic cheese - I can find it here in Iowa's grocery stores.
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Krinkala
Member
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Posted: 7 April 2006 10:34 am |
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Cowgirl, I'm not making a recommendation for anybody else here. But I do have my concerns. My concern is that I don't know if we can especially trust the government's information regarding mad cow. Wouldn't it be nice if the government weren't stopping ranchers from testing all their cattle for mad cow? I have also read what you are saying about where the prions are found. I still don't want dairy products from an animal that has mad cow (or any other sickness for that matter). I'm still consuming some dairy, but I'm rarely eating beef and may quit entirely. I'd like every last animal that is put into the market tested. I am not comforted by the small percentage they are testing.
I also understand that if you went out into the wild and shot an animal such as deer or moose that they too could have prions. I'm not sure we know the source of this. It's not like a regular disease. I'm not necessarily blaming anybody for this.
I am still consuming my organic non-fat yogurt and some amount of cheese in spite of what some people are saying about its calcium not being absorbed. I haven't reached that conclusion yet. But I would like to know how to get enough calcium without dairy in case it becomes necessary and also to augment what I am already doing.
I am not singleing out the dairy industry with my concern. How about seafood? The oceans are terribly polluted and you just can't eat fish without the toxins. And the farm fed fish, such as the salmon I love, are being given growth hormones, another thing I do not need.
I'm not sure what to think about the relationship between the bird flu that is anticipated and the health of the birds we eat, especially chicken. The only thing I can think is if they have to kill off a lot of chickens in this country, chicken is going to be very expensive and so will eggs.
We've always had to keep an eye on the handling, cooking and eating of pork.
It's a pretty sad state of affairs regarding our meat sources right now. I agree with you that it is better to raise your own - at least you know what they've been fed.
There's nothing morally, ethically or legally wrong with taking a vitamin pill. I just think it places a burden on your internal organs that over time creates problems. I'm giving myself a personal challenge to learn how to regularly eat a diet that contains all the needed nutrients. It's a good habit I want to have. I didn't necessarily want to become a vegetarian - I just want to be healthy whatever that takes.
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wm
Senior Member
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Posted: 7 April 2006 11:27 pm |
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Krinkala, I applaud (and agree with) your desire to follow a diet that provides optimal nutrition. I hope you have read or are reading Eat to Live. Whether you follow Dr. Fuhrman's dietstyle or not, the first 1/3 of the book provides a comprehensive lesson in nutrition that will likely leave you knowing more about the subject than the average doctor.
Returning to the discussion of calcium, this article (hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium.html) from the Harvard School of Public Health seems to agree that we don't need as much as many sources suggest:Balance studies - which examine the point at which the amount of calcium consumed equals the amount of calcium excreted - suggest that an adequate intake is 550 mg/day.
Though it concedes that the issue is far from resolved.
The table at the end of the article, listing the calcium content of selected foods, is available in more complete and updated form and for a variety of other nutrients from the USDA's page on Reports by Single Nutrients at ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=9673.
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Aisling
Member
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Posted: 8 April 2006 02:08 am |
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Krinkala,
The Harvard School of Public Health has a page that deals with calcium intake and osteoporosis. It covers the development of bone structure, why osteoporosis develops and what steps, besides ingesting quantities of calcium, can be taken to prevent it.
The site not only discusses the dietary aspects of calcium, but the interaction between calcium stored in the bones, and blood levels of calcium, both of which are critical.
Also, something that I haven't seen emphasized much in the prior responses is the importance of exercise. If you don't do weight bearing, and muscle stregthening exercises, any excess calcium circulating in the blood will be as likely excreted as absorbed.
If you are interested in reading more about it the go to http://www.hsph.harvard.edu click on nutrition source (under sites of note, center column), click on calcium & milk (left hand column).
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Krinkala
Member
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Posted: 9 April 2006 12:02 pm |
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Aisling,
That was a good article. Thank you for the link. I am definitely interested in preventing osteoporosis. I'm going to be proactive about this. I have been following some of the information on vitamins D & K and did find this informative and interesting. The studies that recommend no more than one glass of milk a day are interesting.
And the information vitiman D is interesting - I have been reading about this elsewhere as well. The time of day you can get the most vitamin D through sunshine is in the middle of the day and without sunscreen - just the opposite of the previous recommendations. There's a book that I have been wanting to read about that called "Naked at Noon".
Oh and you are right about the exercise! I'm already working on that - lots of walking in the sunshine at noon (but not naked), doing yoga and lifting weights.
I also understand that magnesium and boron and sodium iodide play a role in bone health and I will have to find out more about that as well.
I am going to have to make myself eat more dark leafy green vegetables. There's so much good nutrition there (calcium, magnesium, vitamin K, etc) with so few calories. That's another habit I intend to make - eating more dark green leafy veges.
Thanks again.
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Krinkala
Member
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Posted: 9 April 2006 12:46 pm |
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wm,
I do intend to read Eat to Live.
It is a bit confusing about what the amount of calcium should be. I guess they are saying that we need 550 mg of absorbable calcium. But they follow that up by saying that the recommended amount is around twice that much? Rather confusing.
Thanks for pointing out the link of the list of foods with calcium. I had missed that.
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Cowgirl
New Member
| Joined: | 4 April 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 43 |
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Posted: 27 April 2006 06:16 pm |
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| What about soy milk? I love the "very vanilla" flavor. The calcium content is just like real milk.
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wm
Senior Member
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Posted: 27 April 2006 08:56 pm |
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I agree, it's difficult to figure out how much is enough. As I understand it, Dr. Fuhrman's position is that myriad other issues with animal sources make them the least desireable source of calcium. I think soy milk and tofu in moderation would be acceptable alternatives.
My favorite way of consuming leafy greens without a lot of chomping is to put them in smoothies—what Dr. Fuhrman first called blended salads and now refers to as green smoothies. It's also easy to add tofu to smoothies (the softer varieties work best).
One of my typical smoothies consists of about a cup of fresh pineapple, two Clementines, a tablespoon of flax meal, a cup or so of Naked Protein Smoothie or pomegranate juice, and as much spinach or Romaine as I can stuff into the Vita-Mix. The possible combinations are endless!
He seems to have thought of green smoothies after he published Eat to Live, as there is no mention of them in the book. However, he discussed them in issue 8 of his Healthy Times newsletter, and also created an excerpt of just that portion of the newsletter; I have both in PDF.
If you're interested, send me your e-mail address by PM and I will send you the excerpt—or the whole of issue 8, whichever you prefer.
Last edited on 27 April 2006 09:16 pm by wm
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Skipperdox
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 28 April 2006 04:04 am |
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What is the life expectancy of a New Guinean? Are Americans experiencing more broken hips because we live Significantly longer? Is it because we are more sedentary? I don't know if you can compare number of hip fractures based solely upon milk consumption.
I wonder if more of the problems linked to dairy are from hormones, antibiotics, and pharmaceuticals used in milk/dairy production. In addition, plastics are being linked to certain hormone conditions such as premature puberty in girls. Gallon milk jugs may be the problem, not the milk. Certain chemicals in the plastic mimic estrogen to the human body.
Not to scare you. I am a milk drinker myself. Look for organic milk in paper cartons if you're concerned. Exercise, specifically weight-bearing, is one of the BEST methods to stave off osteoporosis.
BTW: I am a Dentist with an undergraduate degree in biology, specifically animal sciences. 
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Peter
Founder, caloriesperhour.com
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Posted: 30 April 2006 04:20 am |
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Skipperdox,
I saw you were a dentist and assumed you were a male. Then I looked at your profile and saw that you like to sew and assumed you were a female.
Funny how sexist we can be when we think we don't stereotype people!
Peter
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CapeCoddess
New Member
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Posted: 1 May 2006 03:35 am |
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As a vegetarian for the past 15 years (fell off that wagon a few months ago tho and am slowly working my way back on) I've read and heard at veggie groups that becoz animal protein leaches calcium from the body, and we don't eat animal protein, we don't need as much calcium as a body that does ingest animal protein. Like about half the RDA. (Beware the RDA's...Beware the govt studies... )
I don't really worry about it too much. I cover what bases I can with lots of daily greens, soy milk, beans, and rite now, wild Alaskan salmon and yogurt which will be replaced with tofu when I'm ready to go there again, as well as a daily 20 min sunbath. I also lift weights and so you do, so I think we've got it all covered.
If you still want to see one vegitarian eats, I've listed most of my daily foods in my diary "Back to the Basics" on this website, but you'd have to substitute tofu dishes and tofu yogurt for the salmon and yogurt listed at this time.
So far I haven't seen any hunched over vegetarians....;)
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nevd
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 1 May 2006 03:40 pm |
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A recent study suggested that too much calcium in your diet actually promoted osteoporosis! Scandinavians drink full milk by the bucketful, yet suffer a high incidence of osteoporosis!
A sensible diet and some good resistance (weight) training seems to offer the best protection.
(I'm a 20-year plus vegetarian and recently fell off my bicycle with no fractures, so I guess I'm doing something right...)
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Skipperdox
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 1 May 2006 05:19 pm |
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I just went to the ADA (American Dietetic Association) website. They promote the food pyramid as updated in 2005. (Remember the old food pyramid we all learned in grade school?) Exercise was added as a key component to the food pyramid. The site is designed by nutritionists for nutritionists. They direct you to mypyramid.gov which is the official website for the food pyramid. They will customize a pyramid for you based upon age and gender.
For me, a 36 year old female...I am advised to drink 3 cups of milk per day, 6ounces of grains, 2.5 cups of vegetables, 2 cups of fruit, 5.5 ounces of meat/beans. This is with moderate exercise (approx 30-60min. per day) This does not take into account my weight.
What I find most interesting is that the website My Pyramid.gov is a direct offshoot of the United States Dept. of Agriculture. I don't suppose they have an agenda...
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nevd
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 1 May 2006 07:26 pm |
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I don't suppose they have an agenda...
How cynical!
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Peter
Founder, caloriesperhour.com
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Posted: 1 May 2006 09:07 pm |
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nevd, it's the American way.
We don't worship royalty; we question government.
Peter
P.S.
That's why as a country we're flawless. ;)
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nevd
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 1 May 2006 09:36 pm |
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That's why as a country we're flawless. ;)
I think you mis-spelled 'floor'?
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